WAR Dare to dream poll results

The latest poll here at BBB posed the question: Dare to dream! What would you most like to see in WAR?

I decided against making the poll multiple-choice as I figured people would just pick all of them and really I wanted to see what would be everyone’s single pick. The results are now in and came out as follows:

1. 3rd faction 39%
2. Expand the existing RvR areas 20%
3. New zones 12%
4. New races & careers 9%
5. Missing Cities 8%
6. DAoC style relic fortress raids 8%

Not a shock result by any means. We all know that a third faction should have been included from launch, it was a total no brainer, but one that for some strange reason Mythic decided against. If any one thing could transform the fortunes of WAR it would be the introduction of a third faction, that and some bloody advertising... Unfortunately, whilst it’s not impossible to introduce a third faction this late in the game, it’s a big task and I would imagine extremely expensive to do. Still, I did say “dare to dream”, so a glorious pipe dream wins and I must say that I 100% agree with everyone that voted for it. I would love to see a third faction introduced and as I’ve said in previous posts I’d really like to see one themed around either Nature or Disease.

What is interesting to see is the second placed choice of expanding the RvR areas. I say this not just because I’ve mentioned it many times before, but because this is one where instead of voting for new content, people are actually voting for Mythic to simply make the most of the content they’ve already got. It’s also an option that s completely viable and Mythic could actually do this, if they’re brave enough. Also as Epikk recently mentioned in a comment on a recent post I made, it’s a little surprising that they haven’t done so when you consider that with the level and renown bracket changes, people are now staying in tier 3 until they hit level 40 and are able to acquire renown items that are FAR superior to any PvE items outside of Tier 4’s LV and TotVL dungeons. So the entire Tier 4 PvE landscape is now not just unpopulated and unused, but is now completely and utterly useless. LOL it’s not PVE anymore, it’s UUUU! Unpopulated, Unused & Utterly Useless.

One of the most entertaining battles I’ve been in recently was one where it spilled out into the landscape to the west of Southern Garrison in Praag. It started with Destruction being pushed well away from the keep and turned into this huge battle that for the first time in, oh 2 years, was taking place in somewhere that was effectively entirely new surroundings… Turn some of the PQs into battle objectives, make some of the castle type buildings into DAoC style towers (mini keeps basically) simply by adding doors and TADA! A revolutionised game that has suddenly got a LOT bigger (about 3x bigger) and in effect has masses of new content, since not that many people have even looked at all the PvE landscape anyway! Yes, I know I’m going on about this a bit lately. But people keep mentioning it to me and I just can’t help but think it’s just so damn obvious to do and the effect would be a truly magnificent change.

Yet, from this poll the first choice would be the best, I have no doubt at all about that, but it’s not very likely unless Mythic really do have something awesome in the pipeline that would be a shock to almost everyone. I say almost everyone… You maybe hearing some interesting theories about WAR’s future soon from other sources… I’ll just leave that cryptic statement for you there. Anyways, if we can’t have the first choice, I’ll gladly settle for the second.

Be bold Mythic, be brave, be the company that turns their long suffering game round with an unexpected move and show your players some sodding aplomb.

Hot air in a windy city

As you should have heard by now from Mykiel and Werit, this year Mythic are making an appearance at Gamesworkshop’s next big event in the US; Gamesday Chicago. Some are of the belief that this will be to herald big news for WAR, something of the scale of a true expansion or 3rd faction.

I wouldn’t get too excited.

Obviously I would be delighted if it was something of such magnitude, but I just can’t believe that it will be. I think it is far more likely to be about the Sigmar’s Tide event and we get a single new dungeon or instance, or I suppose it could possibly be the return of Fortresses, but whatever it is I really don’t think it’s going to be that exciting in the grand scheme of things. I’ll just settle for something fun and a little bit new, as to expect much more is just asking for a big letdown should nothing truly significant turn up.

I don’t mean to sound negative, just trying to stay grounded, but with WAR’s current lack of funding, backing and advertising, it’s best to aim your hopes low and then anything else is a bonus.

Of course if Mythic were to deliver some proper OMG big news, then it would be a coup of epic proportions and I will pray at their chaos altar. Though just the aforementioned bonus would be nice.

What WAR needs from DAoC – Part 3

Seeing as this is part 3 it would seem a sensible moment to look at the whole 3rd realm malarkey. We’ve all talked about 3rd realms a lot in the past and I think everyone agrees that this far in to the game it is probably the most difficult change Mythic could make…


DAoC’s three-realm system provides the campaign with a couple of very important things: paranoia and fragile power.

Paranoia
Whenever you’re fighting in DAoC’s vast oRvR frontiers, you’re always paranoid, always suffering (or rather revelling in) a sense of nagging uncertainty. Any straightforward fight can escalate into utter carnage; you just can’t tell what’s going to happen...

I’m logged in and grouped up with my Midgard hunter and fighting the foul tree hugging Hibernians, when suddenly a large force from Albion appears from the forest to my east. They don’t engage at first, they just stand there, watching… In that brief moment a range of possibilities ran through my mind. Will they charge us, or the Hibs, or both? Will they let us kill each other and just mop up the survivors? Perhaps they will ignore us all, leave us unable to fight and use this as an opportunity to make a strategic move of some form… But then it’s not just down to them, what about us? Perhaps both Hibs and Mids will see the Albs as a greater threat and attack first, yet that is relying on both factions reacting in the same way… What if we break for the Albs, but the Hibs don’t? Bloody hell this could get messy fast!


In that particular fight I’m remembering the Albs charged, but unfortunately for them both Mids and Hibs saw them as the large threat. With almost psychic coordination both realms ceased fighting, swung round to meet the Albion charge and after a protracted fight defeated the new enemy. However it was then our turn for some misfortune as the Hibs finished that fight in a better state than us and kicked our arse immediately. It was epic fun though. When fighting in WAR’s 2 realm system you just can’t get those moments, it’s always going to simply be us and them.

It’s worth noting that above I’m referring to a particular sense of paranoia and tension when fighting the enemy and making strategic moves. However you’ll find a different kind of tension throughout all of your frontier oRvR experiences, but that’s more to do with the way the zones work than the 3rd realm. I guess the easiest way to compare it to WAR is it feels a bit like solo roaming in Land of the Dead, when the enemy has the zone controlled and death means game over.

Fragile power
The 3 realm system means any attempt at being the dominant realm is a fragile thing. If one realm starts to dominate the campaign, they will find themselves under attack from both of the other realms. Not normally in any kind of official alliance, more just an unspoken agreement to deal with the bigger menace. Really it is just like that fight I described above, but scaled up a lot. With the open zone system this means that if one realm gains a lot of territory, they now have to maintain control over a lot of territory and against a lot of enemies. If the only RvR you’ve played is in WAR, it’s hard for me to get across quite how vast a task it is to control a lot of land in DAoC. It would take a lot of effort with just 1 enemy realm to deal with, but with 2 enemies it doesn’t take much for the cracks to appear.


Time once again to ask: what if any of this could WAR introduce?

A third realm IS doable and DAoC’s “New Frontiers” expansion proved Mythic are capable of making changes on the scale required. However, that was a different game in a different time. There’s no escaping it would be a massive undertaking today and I imagine would cost so much money to do that it couldn’t be seriously considered by Mythic. Playing make-believe for a bit though, if they did go for it there are a few obstacles to clear.

Q) In the current oRvR zones, if 2 realms have little room for manoeuvre, how the hell do you squeeze a third in?
A)  As per my previous post you make Tier 4 zones full oRvR and give us much larger battlefields. And remember it’s not just the 3rd realm thing adding an extra sense of tension and paranoia to DAoC. The large openRvR zones and more dispersed roaming players create a much larger wilder feeling world. You can see how this could actually work in WAR when playing in Land of the Dead, only 2 realms but a large open zone without funnelling and a constant sense of danger.

Q) How do you connect new lands to the existing racial pairings?

A) You make a T-junction in the central zone of the existing pairings. I made a post about how this could work a while back. In that post I was working based upon the premise of zone-locking and went with Wood Elves as you can see, but the T-junction works regardless of zone-locking or the superior open zone campaign system. Slightly changing my original idea, take West Praag, Cinderfall or the Elf one I’ve forgotten the name of, and turn those into the gateways into the other realm’s lands. In my head this would require the least amount of change to existing zones.

Q) Who’s city gets sieged?
A) Again check out that post of mine from before, for more nice pictures with a suggestion for using the current locking zone lark. That said, I'd much prefer it if we also got rid of zone locks, in which case we could have a system linked to keep and territory control. Once your controlled points reaches a certain low, your city is attackable by the realm with the most controlled points.


Q) WAR’s realm’s have 3 races each, so what races for the new realm?
A) Disease. This is one discussed in comments plenty of times on here before, so credit to all involved in those discussions. Skaven, Beastmen and Nurgle Chaos (Nurgle is the rival of the already playable Tzeentch Chaos). This is the ONLY combination of the remaining primary races in the Warhammer lore that doesn’t have a serious lore conflict. Those 3 are made for each other.

However... time to stamp on this dream. :(

Whilst it could work (it really could, honest!), I very much doubt its feasible to do because of the scale of it and the costs I presume it would involve. No matter what we all want it all just boils down to this.
So when WAR gets new playable races I fully expect them to be part of the existing 2 realms, but maybe that's not such a bad thing...


Next: Summing it all up, what should and might actually be done.

Tango in the night?

Personally I prefer Rumours, but rumours are we may end up tangoing in the night anyway. A dark, vampire filled night and without an albatross in sight.


Putting my ropey Fleetwood Mac word associations aside, the rumours of an expansion have been a little, uhm, expanded upon. As you may have seen Radishlaw comment on my last post, the thing people have found is a name “The Blood Hunt Expansion” within some of the files included from the test server. Also I’ve read elsewhere that another file which zones which includes numerous zone names not currently in the game. Amongst which was Sylvania, homeland of the old world’s vampires…

First lets get this in perspective. The only things we know for sure are:

  • Some clever techy people have found a handful of words in some files.
  • Mythic have declined to comment.

That is all it is... We know nothing else. It could be the findings are from a possible live expansion or live event. Or perhaps and more likely they are just the remains of things removed during development, things never destined to see the light (much like vampires…). As such anything else that I, or anyone else, says is purely speculation and should not be taken as any more than that. But since speculation is fun and it gives me something positive to write about, here I go talking probable bollocks and making 1+1=3! :P

I suspect it’s completely real and Mythic are planning on adding the Vampire Counts as an NPC controlled third faction.

The reasons I think this are as follows:

  • Mythic have mentioned that they have some kind of realm balancing system being created. No details have been provided, but if I recall correctly when it was mentioned they implied it was something cool…
  • Aion has a NPC third faction, who I believe are meant to assist with balancing, so the idea is already out there in game developer land.
  • Warhammer Undead will not work as a playable race, but they are bloody awesome for NPCs.
  • The game desperately needs a third faction to balance things out. Ideally a playable one, but this could work too and is probably a lot easier to implement.
  • It could actually be pretty damn cool and I want to be in a happy place.

So that’s my thinking and I know I’m not the only one to have thought this. Of course I could be talking a load of old cock, or maybe, just maybe, we could be onto something…

Whatever it is or not, I imagine Mythic are happy to have a bit of a buzz going around. I hope so, because it’s got people talking a little more positively about the future.

The WAR Expansion rumour

Is there nothing in it? Are we reading too much into it, or is this the start of another Mythic viral campaign?


Throughout WAR’s life Mythic have regularly promoted rumours through the internet to hype the game. The Choppa and Slayer teasers being absolute classics; when Bloggers were posted parcels containing orange hair dye and an electric shaver, or a DVD of Predator with a note marking the time when Arnie yells “get to da choppa!”

This one though is merely 2 brief comments on their forum.
++++
Fozee
“I found that in the PTS client there’s a big accidental inclusion – information on the next expansion.
Is there anyone in specific I can contact with specifics on the issue?
Nobody wants info leaked before it’s anywhere near finalization.”
++++
Marty (Forum Moderator)
“Guys I’m locking this as it’s not realllly something to be discussed on the forums.
Thanks!
Edited to add the info has been passed uphill to those who can check ‘er out ;)“
++++

This essentially says nothing at all. It could have been a misunderstanding on Fozee’s part. Having not seen what he found, we don’t know. The thing that makes this interesting is the Mythic response. It’s the first time we’ve seen them not deny the existence of an expansion and you could interpret this as confirmation. You could, maybe, perhaps… Or not. Whether there is any truth in it or not, people are still latching onto this nugget of possibility.

And as such, I will now grab hold of the nugget, fondle it lovingly and explain why I hope it’s not just a rumour based on bugger all…

With the current state of WAR we are in dire need of a big announcement. Something to spark interest, something that delivers a giant slice of hope. For a long time many people have said that Mythic should be focusing on the current core game, not adding things like Land of the Dead. To their (eventual) credit, Mythic have now started to do this, but the problem is it’s too late. By the time they get the existing game balanced and performing well, the population drop we’re all now seeing may well have gone too far. Just fixing the basic game is no longer enough. WAR needs an injection of excitement, a giant dangling carrot… WAR needs an expansion announcement.

This would draw people’s attention back to WAR, get the media hype going and give Mythic an opportunity to right the wrongs in the game’s original development. Yes, WAR now NEEDS an expansion.

But not just some new zones and additional races for the existing factions, that would do nothing to address the problem that is the root of all WAR’s issues...

 Come on, you know what's coming... it's not like I haven't said it looooooooads of times before, but reviewing Aion has blasted my brain with repetition, so sorry....

WAR desperately needs a third faction announcement. It has gone beyond just people like me wanting one for our own gaming dreams, WAR needs one to stand a long term chance. Otherwise the one side dominating thing will continue to grind down player morale and people will continue to quit. Even if the game’s finer detailed balance issues like AoE, CC and all the intricacies between careers are fixed, it doesn’t matter. The one dominating and one underdog thing doesn’t work in an MMO. When it’s 1v1, there’s always a winner and loser. People will only tolerate consistently losing for so long. However, with 1v1v1, it’s entirely different. If one faction dominates for too long, then the others combine to attack it. The game self-balances, exactly how DAoC did. The people that have left the game know all this. They won’t come back just because we get given some different textures to play in, as this would mean the core problem remains. Yet I can state with abso-bloody-lute confidence that they will come back for a new dynamic 3 way campaign.

I’ve heard people say that Mythic didn’t go with 3 (or more) factions because they didn’t want to make DAoC 2. I don’t know how true that is, but regardless, it’s worth mentioning because that concept is wrong. DAoC2 is EXACTLY what WAR should have been. I honestly think that if WAR had 3 factions then it would roar back upwards in subscription numbers and become a genuine contender. Take a moment to think about what it would mean. Imagine Mythic’s marketing machine go into overdrive promoting the arrival of an unholy alliance of Skaven, Beastmen and Nurgle. Watch your backs people, there’s a beastial horde of diseased and decay scum on their way…. Awesome eh?

However I worry that if there is an expansion, we would just get Lizardmen vs Skaven as additions to the existing factions. Nice, but not enough... It’s the easy expansion, the same old same old. As I said above, we’d get new textures and models, but have all the same problems. Do you think that would bring anyone back for more than a month or two at best? If at all?

Is adding a new faction just too damn big a task? Perhaps… but when you look at what Mythic did with DAoC’s expansions you’ll see they did pretty huge changes. For example, look at the new frontiers update. It was a truly massive change. The entire (yes all of it) oRvR landscape was ripped out and replaced. Yes, this could be one of the biggest changes to an MMO ever, but Mythic could actually pull it off, they have the history and they have the experience. I seriously have faith in their ability to do it.

The question is, do they have the balls, financial backing and sense to do so?

If you build it, they will come, maybe.

First off in case you’re wondering why I’m not talking about the patch, it’s because I figured I’d let it settled in before commenting. For now, onwards with a totally different subject!

I recently posted a proposal for how a third faction could be incorporated into the existing campaign system of zone locking. The post was met with some enthusiasm (my thanks to those that commented here and the bunch of folks that contacted me in-game, feedback is great to have), so I think it’s time for some more third faction rumblings, but please bare in mind the following is purely hypothetical and Mythic have not given any suggestion they would consider adding a new faction. Right now this is just a popular topic generally, that I think is worth a bit of pondering on. Certainly it seems to me that most people are in agreement, WAR should have had a third faction. It worked in Camelot, would have worked here and would have been a lot better than just two. So the next question I’d like to mull over is:

Is it possible to implement a third faction without it becoming each server’s whipping boy?

Short answer: I think so.

Long answer:
The big concern is that if a third faction suddenly appeared, it wouldn’t have enough players to compete with the existing factions. If the faction starts of weak and is getting it’s backside spanked, then it’s perhaps not going to be an attractive option for people to sign up to and as a result it stays weak long term. Also I’ve seen people comment that people aren’t going to just quit their existing guilds and factions to join the new one, which I’m sure is true in many cases, but I know for sure it’s not every.

So if we think about what introducing a third faction needs to achieve and who it should be marketed at, I think it’s fair to say that; a change of this scale needs to not only be a nice addition that keeps existing subscribers, it also needs to draw in masses of new subscribers and give the game a big injection of life.


If what forums and some bloggers seem to be saying is true, then WAR is full of pissed off and bored people wanting a new challenge. OK, so if you want a challenge how about building a whole new faction up to a competitive level? Surely that would be one hell of a path to glory? I’ve already seen several guilds re-roll faction for a new challenge, which suggests it’s actually not that much of a stretch with a third faction. I know that if I were in that pissed off category I sure as hell would give it a go. It could actually be quite an exciting thing to be part of. Perhaps within this contingent lies the experienced spine of a new faction.

As for the new players, this is the crop waiting to be harvested. If Mythic could get that huge influx of new players you’d hope for with any expansion, but also get the majority of them into the new faction… That’s the lifeblood of it right there. We all saw how skilled Mythic are at building up hype for their game. Mythic could use that skill again and focus it around the third faction. Mythic release the expansion after months of advertising funkiness and the new players join up already brainwashed and gagging to play the new races.

Also I think a key selling point would be to release this as a proper paid expansion (something this scale has huge costs after all), but unusually the expansion release should include a full copy of the original game. This would mean totally new gamers wouldn’t have to pay twice to start the game and would instantly have access to that all important new faction. A whole game and expansion for the price of one is something people will certainly consider trying out and with the new content hyped to high heaven it would get some attention.

So that’s fine, we’ve got a potentially decent sized player base, but how do we make them start strong? That hype is going to wear off fast if the new faction’s city is on one star and being farmed constantly.

That would indeed be a bad thing. Lets avoid it entirely through the power of live events… For the first few months after release have the new faction’s city as un-attackable. We could push them back through the zone before it, but we can’t siege their city itself. This would give their faction time to develop relatively unmolested. As time progresses have various live events themed around the collapse of whatever lore reason is used for this immense defensive power.

The next big thing is to capitalise on the lore. Warhammer is one of the most popular fantasy licences out there; Gamesworkshop has created wonderfully detailed and interesting civilisations full of character. Pick the right races and classes for this new faction and make them awesome. Not good, not quite cool, it needs to be bloody awesome. The things you could create for Skaven zones… or Bretonnian, or Wood Elves, or Beasts of Chaos, or Nurgle, or…. There’s just so much potential to back up the hype with epicness. Make the most of it.

Boil this down and we’ve got:

A full game and expansion for a decent price.

A new faction hyped to hell and with a defensive head start.

Something fresh and new for existing bored players.

A much more dynamic RvR campaign.

More GW awesomeness.

I’m still happy as Larry with my Destruction evilness, but if I weren’t that would make me sign up. How about you?

© 2008 - Bootae's Bloody Blog

Give me some of that scenario action

A good while back I called for the removal of scenarios from WAR, they were detracting from oRvR and to me felt like they were only put in to catch gamers that needed some World of Warcraft familiarity.

Ok, so this is me eating my words. :P I’ve actually been enjoying scenarios immensely over the last few months. I think this is down to several factors.

1) I almost exclusively play in guild groups.
I can’t stress how much better scenarios are if you play with guild groups. If you end up stuck with a bunch of clueless buggers with Internet Twat Bully Syndrome™, well… at least there are 6 of you in there that can try and make a difference. Hell, if you’re lucky with your timed sign ups then you can get a couple of guild groups in at once, which makes for a much more satisfying experience (possibly not for your enemy muhahaha).
Also, just like skirmish oRvR, when you are in a scenario communication and reliability are key. A good bunch of mates and a ventrilo server can make all the difference. Win or lose, it’s more fun when you can have a coordinated attempt at victory.

2) Its not just Serpents bloody Passage anymore.
Variety is the spice of life. Previously when I did a lot of scenarios it was back when all you got was Serpents Passage. Thankfully those days have gone and we get a decent mix of scenarios to fight in.

3) WAR’s scenarios are mostly rather good.
There’s a lot of scenarios in WAR I like; Logrin’s Forge, Battle for Praag, Maw of Madness, Grovod Caverns and Gromril’s Crossing to name just a few. Most of WAR’s scenarios are variants on capture the flag or king of the hill, but they’re nicely mixed up and well made.

4) No Zerg.
Zergs aren’t my cup of tea. I’ll follow them about for ease now and again, but I much prefer more of the small skirmish type fights. Big fights can be fun for sure, particularly when the sides are fairly even. A 4 warband pile up entertaining, but unfortunately all too often its big zerg vs small zerg. With zone layout and the zone locking campaign promoting the zerg, it’s important to have alternatives.


Of course scenarios can also be unbalanced and they are very good at putting emphasis on the overpowered elements in an MMO. I imagine every WAR player, both Order and Destruction, has experienced the pain of facing multiple professional bomb groups. *shudders* I suppose the more you reduce the size of a fight; the more you highlight the abilities of the individuals in it. That said, I think often people forget that this is not just highlighting advantages of different classes, but also the skill of the player.

The only thing I personally find frustrating with scenarios is when people leave early. Short of a RL emergency I never quit scenarios and I encourage my guild members not to either, it’s just not the Kill Frenzy way. It’s all about the waaagh man… That does however mean we sometimes get stuck in impossible situations. A night or two ago I was in a guild group doing Battle for Praag. On joining we quickly realised the other Destruction were randoms and we were facing at least 2 premades of decent Order. After one wipe the other Destruction just buggered off. Leaving us all alone... More destro queueing solo would join, see the score and then leave as well. We of course stayed to the end and tried to put a fight up, but when there are 6 of you taking on 18 coordinated enemies camping your spawn, well… that’s only going to go one way. :P
That’s not so much WAR’s fault as it is many players lacking any sense of honour and only playing for the renown gain. People can say what’s the point of fighting in an obvious loss, but then if everyone had that attitude and simply quit at the first sign of a loss, then there wouldn’t be any PvP at all. If you can’t cope with losing now and again, go PvE. Plus there’s nothing like turning a losing scenario around for a win, which I guess some folks will just never experience.

Is it possible to add a third faction?

Is it too late? Probably. Would it be a bad time to try? Probably :P It would require huge redevelopment and of course would turn everything on its head. But lets live in dreamland for a moment, if Mythic were to try and add another faction are there actually any real options?

I reckon with a shit load of work, time and effort it could be done. So on to the big question....

How to adapt the campaign for a third faction?

The existing system could still work, but have a third VP scoreline and a third branch of zones from each central zone (Praag for example).

First off lets quickly make up a faction. I'm going to go with one called Nature with Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Bretonnians. Now lets attach Wood Elf zones to Praag.

If a faction locks the central zone, then both of the other factions zones become attackable and remain so until the central zone is contested again.

If either of those zones then lock (to which ever enemy faction), the fortress is then attackable.

Taking it further and sticking with one city each (boo hiss), if your faction takes 2 forts from another faction you then get to attack their city.

But what if the attack on Nature's fortress failed, Order locked Reikland and then pushed on Praag whilst Destruction was attacking Loren Forests? Uh oh! Destruction's attack has been cut off and now they face a difficult choice.

Continue their attack on Nature's fortress or risk Order locking Praag and pushing into the Chaos Wastes.

Oh my, what's this? A far less linear and more dynamic campaign? Actual options to cut off supply lines and isolate the enemy? Well, I think so anyway...

Riddled with flaws? Probably, but then maybe something like this could be fitted into WAR. Dark Age of Camelot showed us how well 3 factions works, it prevents one side dominating and keeping the campaign fresh and exciting. Those of us that played DAoC have struggled to understand why Mythic didn't do the same again here.

When Mythic starts looking at major expansions, perhaps they should start reconsidering that missing faction.