Anyone that drops out of the scenario groups to earn increased renown at the cost of teamplay is a self-centred tosser. In fact I’d say it’s a reflection of their character and attitudes in real life. To take the insult and utter disdain for these cretins further; I bet they vote Tory, think The Sun is a real newspaper and while they dare not tell anyone, pictures of Margaret Thatcher make them strangely aroused. Actually that’s not fair, being a selfish twat is not restricted to right wing chavs or inbred toffs (though it is a requirement), so I’ll refrain from making further stereotypical sweeping statements. You wankers.
If you don’t know WTF I am talking about, allow me to provide a quick and slightly poor explanation. When in a scenario in WAR it automatically groups everyone, but the system allows players to drop out of the groups and move themselves into other groups. The intention of this system is to allow players to move the healers, etc around the groups and get things balanced. Unfortunately what people have discovered is if they drop their character out of the groups, but don’t join another they can get increased renown when running in solo invisible mode, particularly when playing a healer.
There are many problems with people doing this. For example they don’t get the benefit of group abilities, other healers can’t see their health bars at all (other than the overhead ones if enabled), their team mates can’t get group healed or benefit from other group abilities, other players in the team can’t see the missing persons health bar which hampers decision making, etc, etc. So as I said above in a slightly less pleasant way, it’s purely done for selfish reasons and has no benefit in anyway for your team.
The solution is simple, in my head anyway. Mythic, please make it so that in scenarios when you drop out of the groups you get a quitter debuff that stays on until you rejoin a group.
I have absolutely no idea if there’s actually a technical reason why this would be difficult, but it would solve the problem if it were possible to implement…
Showing posts with label Scenarios. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Scenarios. Show all posts
Thursday, 16 September 2010
Wednesday, 4 August 2010
Damage done or damage dumb?
For many people this post is going to be stating the obvious, but having seen people gloating and deriding others recently over scenario scores, I figured I’d have a little chat about it.
Scenario damage scores are funny old things. People often use them to show this class is OP, this one gimped, and this person is amazingly skilled, this one a noob, etc, etc… but really most of the time those damage scores are very misleading. Here are a few examples why this happens:
AoE damage inflates scores hugely, but if nobody actually dies then all that damage doesn’t mean much. If a Sorcerer (or whatever) does nothing but bomb, regardless of whether it was actually sensible or not, then they can have massive damage scores yet not really contributed or played well at all.
A tank can have massive damage scores, but if that tank wasn’t targeted much and doesn’t get killed often, then they will have more active time to be causing damage. That tank could also be causing lots of damage but lacked any real contribution. Alas those big scores are one of the major contributing factors into the widely believed, but essentially flawed, crying about tank DPS.
A Witch Hunter or Witch Elf could have low damage scores when compared with the above, but what if they actually burned people down so quickly that they didn’t need to do more damage than their targets basic hit points? In that case the reality could be that their DPS and effectiveness is much greater than it appears.
Where the scenario scoreboard gets interesting and starts to actually provide some meaning is when you start comparing and combining the different statistics it holds; damage, killing blows, solo kills and healing. Should the Sorcerer mentioned above also have a high number of killing blows, then it is looking more likely that they were impactful. If the other player’s damage was much lower and the Sorcerer’s enemy healer’s scores were high, then it’s pretty bloody certain that Sorcerer was the primary threat.
So be a bit wary of hawking scenario scoreboards based on the damage dealt, because that damage score alone is just a number and not a lot else
Scenario damage scores are funny old things. People often use them to show this class is OP, this one gimped, and this person is amazingly skilled, this one a noob, etc, etc… but really most of the time those damage scores are very misleading. Here are a few examples why this happens:
AoE damage inflates scores hugely, but if nobody actually dies then all that damage doesn’t mean much. If a Sorcerer (or whatever) does nothing but bomb, regardless of whether it was actually sensible or not, then they can have massive damage scores yet not really contributed or played well at all.
A tank can have massive damage scores, but if that tank wasn’t targeted much and doesn’t get killed often, then they will have more active time to be causing damage. That tank could also be causing lots of damage but lacked any real contribution. Alas those big scores are one of the major contributing factors into the widely believed, but essentially flawed, crying about tank DPS.
A Witch Hunter or Witch Elf could have low damage scores when compared with the above, but what if they actually burned people down so quickly that they didn’t need to do more damage than their targets basic hit points? In that case the reality could be that their DPS and effectiveness is much greater than it appears.
Where the scenario scoreboard gets interesting and starts to actually provide some meaning is when you start comparing and combining the different statistics it holds; damage, killing blows, solo kills and healing. Should the Sorcerer mentioned above also have a high number of killing blows, then it is looking more likely that they were impactful. If the other player’s damage was much lower and the Sorcerer’s enemy healer’s scores were high, then it’s pretty bloody certain that Sorcerer was the primary threat.
So be a bit wary of hawking scenario scoreboards based on the damage dealt, because that damage score alone is just a number and not a lot else
Thursday, 18 March 2010
The impact of 1.3.4 and the great carrot problem
Now that 1.3.4 has had a little while to bed in, I think it’s about time I posted about what it has meant for WAR on my Karak Norn EU server.
Unless there’s an organised king push on (which is about 3 nights a week) the RvR lakes are very, very quiet. The solo and small-scale roaming scene is almost non-existent, there seems to either be Order in zergs or no Order at all. My guild has a lot of solo and small group roamers, it’s something we’ve always done and in the past more often than not you can find plenty of fighting. Alas, everyone is complaining about how hard it is now to just find an enemy to fight. Even the player designated duelling area is empty. Last night myself and 2 guildies spent about 2 hours trying to find people to fight and only saw 4 Order roaming about, that is other than a 2+ group warband trying to lock zones. Though even they decided to guard their warcamp’s mailbox after the 3 of us with a handful of other Destruction (and in total we were still outnumbered) killed them once... I’m not one that normally flames my opponents, but sorry guys, that was just pathetic.
The nights where Order are on a push for IC are different and at those times there are plenty of enemy players to fight in the RvR lakes, same as ever really. It’s zergy of course, particularly when Destruction warbands have turned up to fight too, but it shows there’s still plenty of people active. Also there’s some smaller fighting to be had around the edges on these occasions, its not all zerg. Damn shame this just isn’t regular right now. Oh and I’m not blaming Order for this, Destruction are just as bad with their regular as clockwork morning King raids. It’s a bit like people have decided to let the enemy kill the king on certain days, especially since it gives you underdog points regardless if you are actually an underdog, it’s just convenient.
On the other hand, our people doing regular scenario groups are really liking this patch. Scenarios pop almost instantly and there are plenty of great fights to be had. Despite earlier concerns, pre-mades are not dominating any more than they were before, I’ve been in a great many successful PUGs (randomly formed Pick Up Groups) and a just as many crap ones. When doing pre-mades I’ve won far, far more than I’ve lost and I imagine this is the same for most guilds doing pre-made scenario groups. Simply because so many people are doing scenarios that you’re going to go up against a lot of PUGs and players less experienced in scenarios. Pre-made vs Pre-made can go either way, but is often defined by who is in your side’s second group. Poor quality comrades against quality opposition can easily lead to poor results.
For me the improved scenarios are of course a positive, but the reduction in oRvR is a huge negative. However this is NOT Mythic’s fault as such. It’s down to the player base choosing to do scenarios instead of open RvR. They could choose to do oRvR normally, instead of only trying to PvE zones down quickly when there’s King loot to be had. It’s people’s materialistic thirst for shiny new pixels grabbing them by the knackers and creating a temporary obsession for scenarios. Just like when Land of the Dead was released, until the novelty wears off it turns the normal oRvR lakes into unpopulated deserts. This isn’t a phenomenon specific to WAR, remember the impact of Arena weapons in World of Warcraft for example, but in WAR it does have more pronounced effects because the game is utterly reliant on it’s community to function. However the novelty isn’t wearing off quite as quickly as I would have hoped. People are not showing signs of returning to regular oRvR just yet.
That’s not to say this situation is entirely down to the player base, because it quite simply isn’t. You have to look at the bigger picture and ask why people are quite so obsessed with the new scenario system. Obviously it’s the loot, but it’s not necessarily because of the quality of the items or a must have uber item X, Y & Z thing. For many players the new items are more of a sideways progression, they give options rather than any huge increase in power. They also take a lot of time to get, unless you dedicate your entire gaming time to doing scenarios. So we have items that take a lot of time to get and for a great many players are not that much of an upgrade (if at all), in which case why the obsessive scenario farming? It’s because they’ve reached the end of the stick and eaten all the carrots.
So many players are in the 70-80 renown bracket now that they’ve more than likely got everything they want and have run out of things to work towards. If you’ve got full Sovereign and/or Tyrant, got the glyphs and fancy weapons, you’ve exhausted your character’s progression options. Which only leaves you with scenarios and the new loot. I can see it in my future with my Chosen, I’ve got the Tyrant Chest and cloak to get, then I just need a few more funery masks to get the rest of the Tyrant drops. Now that I’m doing Tomb of the Vulture Lord regularly again, that isn’t far away. I don’t have any Sovereign armour, but this is actually by choice as I dont go on my guild's king farming warbands, because I don’t like the Sov graphics and don’t need the stats. We’re also almost at the point of downing the Colossus as a guild, so I’ll be able to farm that should I want to. Which means all that will be left for me are scenario items. Now I’ll still play for the fighting alone and I’m a filthy altoholic anyway, but long term MMO experience tells us most people aren’t like that. They get all the gear, quit the game and go off in search of achievements elsewhere.
And this I think is the biggest impact of 1.3.4. It is a good patch, it has added to and improved the game, but more than anything it has highlighted how long term WAR gamers desperately need real new content. Mythic need to add a new dungeon, a new zone, whatever, just more things of real substance. We need things to achieve and not Blizzard style earn 5 million gold crap by the way... ugh
Mythic’s supply of carrots is dwindling. If 1.3.5 really does fix the city siege crap but it doesnt bring new carrots as well, will it be enough to get people out of scenarios and back out in oRvR?
I sure hope so.
Unless there’s an organised king push on (which is about 3 nights a week) the RvR lakes are very, very quiet. The solo and small-scale roaming scene is almost non-existent, there seems to either be Order in zergs or no Order at all. My guild has a lot of solo and small group roamers, it’s something we’ve always done and in the past more often than not you can find plenty of fighting. Alas, everyone is complaining about how hard it is now to just find an enemy to fight. Even the player designated duelling area is empty. Last night myself and 2 guildies spent about 2 hours trying to find people to fight and only saw 4 Order roaming about, that is other than a 2+ group warband trying to lock zones. Though even they decided to guard their warcamp’s mailbox after the 3 of us with a handful of other Destruction (and in total we were still outnumbered) killed them once... I’m not one that normally flames my opponents, but sorry guys, that was just pathetic.
The nights where Order are on a push for IC are different and at those times there are plenty of enemy players to fight in the RvR lakes, same as ever really. It’s zergy of course, particularly when Destruction warbands have turned up to fight too, but it shows there’s still plenty of people active. Also there’s some smaller fighting to be had around the edges on these occasions, its not all zerg. Damn shame this just isn’t regular right now. Oh and I’m not blaming Order for this, Destruction are just as bad with their regular as clockwork morning King raids. It’s a bit like people have decided to let the enemy kill the king on certain days, especially since it gives you underdog points regardless if you are actually an underdog, it’s just convenient.
On the other hand, our people doing regular scenario groups are really liking this patch. Scenarios pop almost instantly and there are plenty of great fights to be had. Despite earlier concerns, pre-mades are not dominating any more than they were before, I’ve been in a great many successful PUGs (randomly formed Pick Up Groups) and a just as many crap ones. When doing pre-mades I’ve won far, far more than I’ve lost and I imagine this is the same for most guilds doing pre-made scenario groups. Simply because so many people are doing scenarios that you’re going to go up against a lot of PUGs and players less experienced in scenarios. Pre-made vs Pre-made can go either way, but is often defined by who is in your side’s second group. Poor quality comrades against quality opposition can easily lead to poor results.
For me the improved scenarios are of course a positive, but the reduction in oRvR is a huge negative. However this is NOT Mythic’s fault as such. It’s down to the player base choosing to do scenarios instead of open RvR. They could choose to do oRvR normally, instead of only trying to PvE zones down quickly when there’s King loot to be had. It’s people’s materialistic thirst for shiny new pixels grabbing them by the knackers and creating a temporary obsession for scenarios. Just like when Land of the Dead was released, until the novelty wears off it turns the normal oRvR lakes into unpopulated deserts. This isn’t a phenomenon specific to WAR, remember the impact of Arena weapons in World of Warcraft for example, but in WAR it does have more pronounced effects because the game is utterly reliant on it’s community to function. However the novelty isn’t wearing off quite as quickly as I would have hoped. People are not showing signs of returning to regular oRvR just yet.
That’s not to say this situation is entirely down to the player base, because it quite simply isn’t. You have to look at the bigger picture and ask why people are quite so obsessed with the new scenario system. Obviously it’s the loot, but it’s not necessarily because of the quality of the items or a must have uber item X, Y & Z thing. For many players the new items are more of a sideways progression, they give options rather than any huge increase in power. They also take a lot of time to get, unless you dedicate your entire gaming time to doing scenarios. So we have items that take a lot of time to get and for a great many players are not that much of an upgrade (if at all), in which case why the obsessive scenario farming? It’s because they’ve reached the end of the stick and eaten all the carrots.
So many players are in the 70-80 renown bracket now that they’ve more than likely got everything they want and have run out of things to work towards. If you’ve got full Sovereign and/or Tyrant, got the glyphs and fancy weapons, you’ve exhausted your character’s progression options. Which only leaves you with scenarios and the new loot. I can see it in my future with my Chosen, I’ve got the Tyrant Chest and cloak to get, then I just need a few more funery masks to get the rest of the Tyrant drops. Now that I’m doing Tomb of the Vulture Lord regularly again, that isn’t far away. I don’t have any Sovereign armour, but this is actually by choice as I dont go on my guild's king farming warbands, because I don’t like the Sov graphics and don’t need the stats. We’re also almost at the point of downing the Colossus as a guild, so I’ll be able to farm that should I want to. Which means all that will be left for me are scenario items. Now I’ll still play for the fighting alone and I’m a filthy altoholic anyway, but long term MMO experience tells us most people aren’t like that. They get all the gear, quit the game and go off in search of achievements elsewhere.
And this I think is the biggest impact of 1.3.4. It is a good patch, it has added to and improved the game, but more than anything it has highlighted how long term WAR gamers desperately need real new content. Mythic need to add a new dungeon, a new zone, whatever, just more things of real substance. We need things to achieve and not Blizzard style earn 5 million gold crap by the way... ugh
Mythic’s supply of carrots is dwindling. If 1.3.5 really does fix the city siege crap but it doesnt bring new carrots as well, will it be enough to get people out of scenarios and back out in oRvR?
I sure hope so.
Saturday, 13 February 2010
Revised scenario structure revealed
Check out Andy's post here:
In the post Andy explains their reasoning for the changes and clarifies a few things, like the weekend special scenarios, how all scenarios are active for all zones all the time and how everything counts towards the campaign.
The new scenario list looks like this:
First impressions... this could work out quite well, but having been burnt by posting before thinking recently, I'm going to have a ponder on it before getting off the fence.
In the post Andy explains their reasoning for the changes and clarifies a few things, like the weekend special scenarios, how all scenarios are active for all zones all the time and how everything counts towards the campaign.
The new scenario list looks like this:
First impressions... this could work out quite well, but having been burnt by posting before thinking recently, I'm going to have a ponder on it before getting off the fence.
Friday, 27 November 2009
Complacency beats KF to death with their own shoes
My guild "Kill Frenzy" has always been pretty good in scenarios. In the past when we did regular premades it would normally result in a night of wins, with at absolute worst only a handfull of competitively fought losses. Order publically respected our groups and I can say without ego bias that we had earnt it.
Over the last few months we haven't been running premade scenario groups, other than a few random occasions. People got distracted by other games, or alt characters and we pretty much dropped out of the scenario scene.
This week we returned!
And we got our arses kicked really, really badly. You see, we came back thinking we're good, just cobbled some groups together and went out there all confident. On two seperate nights we had 1 healer and 3 lowbies per group, plus there was no synergy in our set ups. Yet we were surprised when we lost in horrific fashion. In other words we got cocky and extremely complacent. Unintentionally we were probably disrepecting our Order enemies and we paid the shameful price. I was bloody livid, at myself mainly for letting us get so damn slack. One doesn't simply walk into Mordor...
I guess sometimes it's easy to forget the red names are other people, people who may be just as good as (or better than) you think you are. Having had this wake up call we've decided from now on with our pre-arranged guild RvR nights we'll only do scenarios with serious groups. Though other times we'll mess about more, but no more 2 random KF groups in one scenario.
There is no place in PvP for complacency, as my sore buttocks can testify to.
Over the last few months we haven't been running premade scenario groups, other than a few random occasions. People got distracted by other games, or alt characters and we pretty much dropped out of the scenario scene.
This week we returned!
And we got our arses kicked really, really badly. You see, we came back thinking we're good, just cobbled some groups together and went out there all confident. On two seperate nights we had 1 healer and 3 lowbies per group, plus there was no synergy in our set ups. Yet we were surprised when we lost in horrific fashion. In other words we got cocky and extremely complacent. Unintentionally we were probably disrepecting our Order enemies and we paid the shameful price. I was bloody livid, at myself mainly for letting us get so damn slack. One doesn't simply walk into Mordor...
I guess sometimes it's easy to forget the red names are other people, people who may be just as good as (or better than) you think you are. Having had this wake up call we've decided from now on with our pre-arranged guild RvR nights we'll only do scenarios with serious groups. Though other times we'll mess about more, but no more 2 random KF groups in one scenario.
There is no place in PvP for complacency, as my sore buttocks can testify to.
Wednesday, 5 August 2009
Give me some of that scenario action
A good while back I called for the removal of scenarios from WAR, they were detracting from oRvR and to me felt like they were only put in to catch gamers that needed some World of Warcraft familiarity.
Ok, so this is me eating my words. :P I’ve actually been enjoying scenarios immensely over the last few months. I think this is down to several factors.
1) I almost exclusively play in guild groups.
I can’t stress how much better scenarios are if you play with guild groups. If you end up stuck with a bunch of clueless buggers with Internet Twat Bully Syndrome™, well… at least there are 6 of you in there that can try and make a difference. Hell, if you’re lucky with your timed sign ups then you can get a couple of guild groups in at once, which makes for a much more satisfying experience (possibly not for your enemy muhahaha).
Also, just like skirmish oRvR, when you are in a scenario communication and reliability are key. A good bunch of mates and a ventrilo server can make all the difference. Win or lose, it’s more fun when you can have a coordinated attempt at victory.
2) Its not just Serpents bloody Passage anymore.
Variety is the spice of life. Previously when I did a lot of scenarios it was back when all you got was Serpents Passage. Thankfully those days have gone and we get a decent mix of scenarios to fight in.
3) WAR’s scenarios are mostly rather good.
There’s a lot of scenarios in WAR I like; Logrin’s Forge, Battle for Praag, Maw of Madness, Grovod Caverns and Gromril’s Crossing to name just a few. Most of WAR’s scenarios are variants on capture the flag or king of the hill, but they’re nicely mixed up and well made.
4) No Zerg.
Zergs aren’t my cup of tea. I’ll follow them about for ease now and again, but I much prefer more of the small skirmish type fights. Big fights can be fun for sure, particularly when the sides are fairly even. A 4 warband pile up entertaining, but unfortunately all too often its big zerg vs small zerg. With zone layout and the zone locking campaign promoting the zerg, it’s important to have alternatives.
Of course scenarios can also be unbalanced and they are very good at putting emphasis on the overpowered elements in an MMO. I imagine every WAR player, both Order and Destruction, has experienced the pain of facing multiple professional bomb groups. *shudders* I suppose the more you reduce the size of a fight; the more you highlight the abilities of the individuals in it. That said, I think often people forget that this is not just highlighting advantages of different classes, but also the skill of the player.
The only thing I personally find frustrating with scenarios is when people leave early. Short of a RL emergency I never quit scenarios and I encourage my guild members not to either, it’s just not the Kill Frenzy way. It’s all about the waaagh man… That does however mean we sometimes get stuck in impossible situations. A night or two ago I was in a guild group doing Battle for Praag. On joining we quickly realised the other Destruction were randoms and we were facing at least 2 premades of decent Order. After one wipe the other Destruction just buggered off. Leaving us all alone... More destro queueing solo would join, see the score and then leave as well. We of course stayed to the end and tried to put a fight up, but when there are 6 of you taking on 18 coordinated enemies camping your spawn, well… that’s only going to go one way. :P
That’s not so much WAR’s fault as it is many players lacking any sense of honour and only playing for the renown gain. People can say what’s the point of fighting in an obvious loss, but then if everyone had that attitude and simply quit at the first sign of a loss, then there wouldn’t be any PvP at all. If you can’t cope with losing now and again, go PvE. Plus there’s nothing like turning a losing scenario around for a win, which I guess some folks will just never experience.
Ok, so this is me eating my words. :P I’ve actually been enjoying scenarios immensely over the last few months. I think this is down to several factors.
1) I almost exclusively play in guild groups.
I can’t stress how much better scenarios are if you play with guild groups. If you end up stuck with a bunch of clueless buggers with Internet Twat Bully Syndrome™, well… at least there are 6 of you in there that can try and make a difference. Hell, if you’re lucky with your timed sign ups then you can get a couple of guild groups in at once, which makes for a much more satisfying experience (possibly not for your enemy muhahaha).
Also, just like skirmish oRvR, when you are in a scenario communication and reliability are key. A good bunch of mates and a ventrilo server can make all the difference. Win or lose, it’s more fun when you can have a coordinated attempt at victory.
2) Its not just Serpents bloody Passage anymore.
Variety is the spice of life. Previously when I did a lot of scenarios it was back when all you got was Serpents Passage. Thankfully those days have gone and we get a decent mix of scenarios to fight in.
3) WAR’s scenarios are mostly rather good.
There’s a lot of scenarios in WAR I like; Logrin’s Forge, Battle for Praag, Maw of Madness, Grovod Caverns and Gromril’s Crossing to name just a few. Most of WAR’s scenarios are variants on capture the flag or king of the hill, but they’re nicely mixed up and well made.
4) No Zerg.
Zergs aren’t my cup of tea. I’ll follow them about for ease now and again, but I much prefer more of the small skirmish type fights. Big fights can be fun for sure, particularly when the sides are fairly even. A 4 warband pile up entertaining, but unfortunately all too often its big zerg vs small zerg. With zone layout and the zone locking campaign promoting the zerg, it’s important to have alternatives.
Of course scenarios can also be unbalanced and they are very good at putting emphasis on the overpowered elements in an MMO. I imagine every WAR player, both Order and Destruction, has experienced the pain of facing multiple professional bomb groups. *shudders* I suppose the more you reduce the size of a fight; the more you highlight the abilities of the individuals in it. That said, I think often people forget that this is not just highlighting advantages of different classes, but also the skill of the player.
The only thing I personally find frustrating with scenarios is when people leave early. Short of a RL emergency I never quit scenarios and I encourage my guild members not to either, it’s just not the Kill Frenzy way. It’s all about the waaagh man… That does however mean we sometimes get stuck in impossible situations. A night or two ago I was in a guild group doing Battle for Praag. On joining we quickly realised the other Destruction were randoms and we were facing at least 2 premades of decent Order. After one wipe the other Destruction just buggered off. Leaving us all alone... More destro queueing solo would join, see the score and then leave as well. We of course stayed to the end and tried to put a fight up, but when there are 6 of you taking on 18 coordinated enemies camping your spawn, well… that’s only going to go one way. :P
That’s not so much WAR’s fault as it is many players lacking any sense of honour and only playing for the renown gain. People can say what’s the point of fighting in an obvious loss, but then if everyone had that attitude and simply quit at the first sign of a loss, then there wouldn’t be any PvP at all. If you can’t cope with losing now and again, go PvE. Plus there’s nothing like turning a losing scenario around for a win, which I guess some folks will just never experience.
Monday, 23 February 2009
Instanced PvP Scenarios are so last year
Instanced scenarios are bloody rubbish. I think they’re one of the factors ruining WAR’s RvR, in fact to take that further I’d say they should just be removed from the game. In their current form at least…
Open RvR in the lower tiers can be sparse, not because people don’t want to do RvR, it’s just easier to queue for a scenario instead of finding a fight and the XP/renown rewards are more reliable than in open RvR. People will nearly always take the easy option after all. Of course if those people already in scenarios weren’t in there, then they’d be doing their RvR out in the open world… You know the whole open RvR bit that WAR is meant to be about... Instead we have Tor Anroc over and over, and over, and over again. There’s a big molten bore reason why despite me having a lot of alts, not one of them has made it through Tier 3 yet.
In tier 4 scenarios are an epic pain in the arse. As well as the above issues, they also count towards zone locks, which means people get all stressed if anyone below level 40 and/or with crap gear dares join them. I’m sure we’ve all seen the region chat stuff with people trash talking those damn noob lowbie scumbags that had the temerity to join a T4 scenario. That’s a real problem, people getting shit just for playing the game the way it was designed to be. Those people leveling up are the future of WAR, it's not exactly promoting the game if we give them grief for getting XP. And regardless of who the community decides is allowed to do what, it’s still just more people taken out of open RvR and dumped into instances.
Of course if there was no scenarios, then the lack of variety in open RvR would become more obvious and it would also slow down the levelling process. So clearly they can’t just be removed, without enhancing the whole open RvR experience. So what to do?
I’ve an idea for a solution, based around the public quest concept. Lets get the scenarios out of the instances and turn them into public quests, and voila! Public Scenarios! Public quests without any PvE element, just the same requirements as the current instanced scenarios have. To a point WAR already has this sort of thing with Fort captures, BOs, etc, working in a similar method, but currently it's just so limited and I would suggest, an opportunity to improve.
Lets take for example Stonetroll Crossing. Grab a section of Troll Country’s barely used PvE zone, remove the mobs and update the landscape with a Stonetroll Crossing style area, complete with troll pacifier and angry rock throwing trolls. Replace the scenario timer with a revolving PQ timer and we’re good to go.
We’d need to avoid making these another way to RvE, but perhaps that could be done by having the XP/renown reward using a multiplier related to the number of enemy players killed in the area during the Public Scenario’s timer. So if you did it solo while Order are in the other zone, nil points for you sunshine, but get stuck in and scrap each other? XP and renown for all yay! Or something like that anyway. :P
How then to stop the enemy refusing to fight in that scenario? Hmm needs some incentives…
What if a Public Scenario was then linked somehow to a Battle Objective, or even a keep? Say if you win the above scenario, then the aforementioned angry trolls attack Stonetroll keep, attacking players and NPCs alike.
How about if each zone had a battle objective that actually was a Public Scenario? If I recall correctly we have 36 identical battle objectives in Tier 4. Seriously, that needs livening up. So rather than yet another kill 6 NPCs, click flag and wait snorefest, how about Artisan’s Gift was say a Serpent’s Passage style Public Scenario? What if Defensive Boon had a capture the flag type system for controlling it?
There's a wealth of options here, it doesn't have to be the 36 identical battle objectives it is now.
But, but, but there won’t be an even number of players! It won’t be fair!
Personally, I couldn’t care less. It’s Warhammer, not HappyClappyHammer. Why in the world would bloody Orcs turn up to Nordenwatch and say “Youz lot stay ‘ere, we iz only takin uz 12 ta fights dem fair like!”.
Open RvR in the lower tiers can be sparse, not because people don’t want to do RvR, it’s just easier to queue for a scenario instead of finding a fight and the XP/renown rewards are more reliable than in open RvR. People will nearly always take the easy option after all. Of course if those people already in scenarios weren’t in there, then they’d be doing their RvR out in the open world… You know the whole open RvR bit that WAR is meant to be about... Instead we have Tor Anroc over and over, and over, and over again. There’s a big molten bore reason why despite me having a lot of alts, not one of them has made it through Tier 3 yet.
In tier 4 scenarios are an epic pain in the arse. As well as the above issues, they also count towards zone locks, which means people get all stressed if anyone below level 40 and/or with crap gear dares join them. I’m sure we’ve all seen the region chat stuff with people trash talking those damn noob lowbie scumbags that had the temerity to join a T4 scenario. That’s a real problem, people getting shit just for playing the game the way it was designed to be. Those people leveling up are the future of WAR, it's not exactly promoting the game if we give them grief for getting XP. And regardless of who the community decides is allowed to do what, it’s still just more people taken out of open RvR and dumped into instances.
Of course if there was no scenarios, then the lack of variety in open RvR would become more obvious and it would also slow down the levelling process. So clearly they can’t just be removed, without enhancing the whole open RvR experience. So what to do?
I’ve an idea for a solution, based around the public quest concept. Lets get the scenarios out of the instances and turn them into public quests, and voila! Public Scenarios! Public quests without any PvE element, just the same requirements as the current instanced scenarios have. To a point WAR already has this sort of thing with Fort captures, BOs, etc, working in a similar method, but currently it's just so limited and I would suggest, an opportunity to improve.
Lets take for example Stonetroll Crossing. Grab a section of Troll Country’s barely used PvE zone, remove the mobs and update the landscape with a Stonetroll Crossing style area, complete with troll pacifier and angry rock throwing trolls. Replace the scenario timer with a revolving PQ timer and we’re good to go.
We’d need to avoid making these another way to RvE, but perhaps that could be done by having the XP/renown reward using a multiplier related to the number of enemy players killed in the area during the Public Scenario’s timer. So if you did it solo while Order are in the other zone, nil points for you sunshine, but get stuck in and scrap each other? XP and renown for all yay! Or something like that anyway. :P
How then to stop the enemy refusing to fight in that scenario? Hmm needs some incentives…
What if a Public Scenario was then linked somehow to a Battle Objective, or even a keep? Say if you win the above scenario, then the aforementioned angry trolls attack Stonetroll keep, attacking players and NPCs alike.
How about if each zone had a battle objective that actually was a Public Scenario? If I recall correctly we have 36 identical battle objectives in Tier 4. Seriously, that needs livening up. So rather than yet another kill 6 NPCs, click flag and wait snorefest, how about Artisan’s Gift was say a Serpent’s Passage style Public Scenario? What if Defensive Boon had a capture the flag type system for controlling it?
There's a wealth of options here, it doesn't have to be the 36 identical battle objectives it is now.
But, but, but there won’t be an even number of players! It won’t be fair!
Personally, I couldn’t care less. It’s Warhammer, not HappyClappyHammer. Why in the world would bloody Orcs turn up to Nordenwatch and say “Youz lot stay ‘ere, we iz only takin uz 12 ta fights dem fair like!”.
Just because instanced scenarios were in World of Warcraft, doesn’t mean we need them in WAR. If you look back at when WoW’s PvP wasn’t rubbish, it was back when there weren’t any scenarios, back when people used to turn up at Tarren Mill and just kick the crap out of each other. It wasn’t always even, it was very rarely fair, but it was a lot of fun. Far better than the “lets lose this quick” crap you have in WoW today. Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot had some of the best PvP ever in MMOs, with no scenarios needed.
This is far from a new idea either. World of Warcraft does actually have Public Scenarios (Eastern Plaguelands, Silithius, for example), just no bugger does them because WoW’s open PvP is pointless and everyone lives in… yup, instanced scenarios. Where as WAR’s open PvP is far from pointless, it’s just suffering from a lack of variety.
Thing is, that variety is there; it’s just needs moving out of those bloody instances.
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About Me
- Bootae
- Half man half pixel. Music obsessive, likes a drink, occasional bastard.