Don’t fight the lore

Before I start this, yeah I know I’ve written Dwarfs instead of Dwarves, for some reason Dwarfs is the correct spelling in Warhammer…

Mythic’s recent development post regarding the play as monster feature and their implementation of Skaven, predictably prompted some debate regarding the warhammer lore and the concept of Skaven as allies of the Order races. In general it wasn’t a popular move and is seen by many as a heinous breach of the warhammer lore, though others are quick to point out (correctly) that Gamesworkshop gave it the OK and (incorrectly) that surely it doesn’t really matter.

Firstly, while Gamesworkshop gave it the OK for Warhammer Online, they have not done the same for any of their other games. Quite the opposite in fact, as Skaven are now officially designated a Destruction race, within Gamesworkshop’s new groupings of allies. Whilst Skaven are fairly new to being grouped quite so clearly as this, prior to this latest edition of Warhammer there were races that the rules (and lore) restrict each race from allying with. From those that Skaven were restricted against allying with of particular note are the Dwarfs, who have been involved in a bitter and hate filled war with the Skaven for the small matter of, oh… over FOUR THOUSAND YEARS.

That’s right, the Dwarfs have been had four thousand years of unending war with the Skaven, but then with the Skaven being seen as responsible for the collapse of the Dwarf empire (technically it was down to a Slaan, but they don’t know that..) and the death of countless millions of Dwarfs, you can understand if the stunties are perhaps a bit miffed.. There isn’t really anyone that can beat Skaven for entries into the Dammaz Kron (Book of Grudges).  So regardless of Gamesworkshop giving it the green light, it was obviously not going to be a popular move and the fact that they haven’t put it anywhere near the proper game world speaks volumes. Oh and the Trollslayer career in WAR has a mastery path called Skavenslayer. HELLO!

Now there is a fairly valid argument against Skaven being allied with the existing WAR Destruction races, as Skaven are such treacherous gits that nobody trusts them at all. I would say that they are more suited to a third faction, though being part of WAR’s Destruction faction is not an entirely uncomfortable arrangement. But being allied with the Dwarfs is totally not an option. It’s actually less about whom the Skaven would ally with, but more the fact that the Dwarfs (and Elves for that matter) would never ever agree to it.

But it went live and that’s what we’ve got, so why does it matter?

The thing is a great many people wouldn’t have ever started playing WAR if it wasn’t for the lore. They are fans of it; they know how it works and what is wrong or right. So a developer should ensure that is cherished, protected and used in a way that keeps the players on side. If WAR wasn’t set in the warhammer universe, I wouldn’t be playing it. If WAR was some generic made up on the fly fantasy shite, then absolutely no way would I be interested, but it isn’t, it’s Warhammer and that has meaning to me and a lot of people. Likewise, if Star Trek Online wasn’t set in the Star Trek universe it would be dead in the water and have nobody playing it at all. The famous IP draws people in, then hopefully the quality of the game retains them, but if the game has issues people will leave and your left with just a few diehards and all the rest will be those that are playing because they love that IP.

As it stands we have no assurances that this won’t continue in future. What’s next a Wood Elf skin for both factions? If Skaven for both is reasonable, then so is that. What about Beastmen, Undead or Bretonnians? Why not eh? Keep going along that path and it’s not long before this isn’t Warhammer anymore. A nice logo and Gamesworkshop's approval won't help you when you're down to one dying server and even the warhammers fans have rejected the game.

Obviously it would be better if the whole thing was changed so Skaven could be a proper playable race one day, but that seems unlikely in the current climate. But surely it’s not impossible to expect a re-skin for Order’s Skaven to beeither Lizardmen or Wood Elves. Neither are perfect options, but they’re a hell of a lot better than what we’ve got now and instead of alienating a great many of WAR’s remaining players, it would be seen as Mythic seeing the grimy foul Warhammer light and actually acting on it. We would see the lore win.

Mythic monsters

Having to rush this post as I've got a RIFT dungeon run tonight, so sorry for any spelling issues...

Today mythic have some info for us about, amongst things, the Sigmar's Tide event. It includes a new scenario set (as predicted) in the Bright Wizard College and some open world RvR activities to do. The scenario includes some kind of monster play feature as players can gain control of a fire elemental type beastie. When looked at purely in the context of a live event, this all sounds pretty good. Of course players are already ignoring that context and complaining that this isn't anywhere near the amount of new content or changes the game needs.

And they'd be right. But this is about the live event and we don't know what is (or isn't...) getting announced at Chicago Gamesday which it appears will be a month after this has already gone live, so sounds like I've got that one wrong and perhaps they do have something more than this to talk about. I'll not be getting hyped about it mind you, I remain wracked with doubt. So despite this the event itself sounds good.

Also we can see in that first post that 1.4.3 goes live in June. The only mention of what it includes is a new accessory set. So, uhm, ok. Have to wait and see if 1.4.3 brings us anything to care about or not.

And then finally we have a new dev discussion about monsterplay, or as Mythic calls it, Play as Monster. This leads me to feel a little uncomfortable about where this could end up. Aside from the incredibly bad idea, sorry... the INCREDIBLY BAD AND BLOODY STUPID IDEA of having Skaven playable for both factions instead of Lizardmen for Order, the implementation has not worked out very well at all and isn't even vaguely popular. People wanted new playable races and classes, not temporary skins with a few abilities, that you can only choose to use occasionally. So the thought of more of this is not in any way appealing.

Sure I guess there are ways it could be made a bit more appealing, but it will never, EVER, be as well received as actual new races and careers. Mythic need to HTFU, admit they got it wrong and do it properly. Sorry Mythic, I wub you guys and all, but that is the reality of how utterly mediocre the Skaven turned out and the only way you'd really improve it. For now it remains a missed opportunity of E P I C proportions. I've no idea where you'd get the money to sort this of course, but it really could be so much better if monster play was dropped.

An injection of life

Today I'm posting something a little different. It's a comment a mate of mine made on my blog recently about what he would like to see changed in WAR. It's an excellent suggestion and something I though deserved highlighting.

Venorath writes...

If I could change only 1 thing I'd get rid of the static feeling in the various zones.

After a shot at the Rift beta I remembered how hectic and involved you feel in a zone when you get rid of the if/then scripted events and encounters. the same was valid in Tabula Rasa, even though the game itself was rubbish, you felt like you were fighting for control in whateve zone you were in.

So... I'd add in invasions of factions fitting the pairing, with a sprinkling of skaven ontop of that. Both in the RvR and PvE areas. The invasions would pretty much be a copy of the rift mechanics seen in Rift, but with a Warhammer flavor. to make sure a zone was not overrun with invasions during periods of low activity (such as night times) I'd scale the frequency and power of the invasions to the number of active players in the zone.

By making sure that there was a clear message and indicators on the map whenever an invasion started, players would be aware of the fighting going on all over the zone, and be able to jump in to defend or attack a staging area.

Add ontop of that the PQ mechanics to reward participants with rewards based on wether it was a PvP or PvE invasion.

The end result should be a more engaging PvE experience, with oppertunities for PvP, both fun and rewarding.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think this is an excellent suggestion. Putting aside the detail of copying RIFT's dramatic improvement of the Public Quests (which is well worth considering), I think the core concept that Veno alludes to is an important one to grab hold off if WAR wants to better cater for it's playerbase. While at times we may deride some of WAR's past and present attempts at combining PvP and PvE, we must remember that at times Mythic have pulled it off rather well. For example the new city sieges are very good when you get a proper fighty instance. But the prime example is DAoC. The game that all us vets hark back to is a PvE/PvP hybrid in ALL of it's RvR frontiers, dungeons and more.

Regardless of if there are players around, DAoC always feels like a living, breathing and very much alive world. This is due to a mixture of things, but not least amongst those are the mobs everywhere. WAR just doesn't have that same sense of world within it's limited RvR lakes, it feels much more desolate. The recently added Thanquols Incursion is a prime example of this; a Skaven infested tunnel network that er... isn't infested with Skaven. Which reminds me, instead of being in the crappy dungeon why can't those bosses actually attack the RvR lakes? Think about that for a bit. Roaming skaven nasties, hordes of rats, etc.

What about something like in the city sieges where NPC heroes like Engra charge across the battlefield capturing things? Mix it up, breath some live in.

Making things more dynamic, with a greater sense of scale and most importantly, feeling more alive is something Mythic should give serious thought to. Oh and weather effects like in DAoC pls ;)

Thanquol, you are a sodding tosser

AAAGHH screw you Thanquol and your poxy incursion! Despite our group having people in the top damage done, none of us are getting even a chance to roll on loot as it says we didn't contribute enough. First two bosses just now, same thing and we've logged off. Third bloody time this has happened to me in TI and it's annoying as hell.

 

Man this dungeon thing needs work. Barely any Skaven in it, barely any enemy players in it (or other times far too many), barely anything to do in it and all told, just hugely disappointing. For me it’s the biggest let down with 1.4 and the RvR packs. Mythic have some changes in the pipeline for TI, but man oh man it needs to be more than just a few tweaks.

 

It needs to have:

• Reasons for players to be spread around, fighting in the tunnels in EVERY stage, with points to control, activate, attack or something.
• LOTS of Skaven NPCs running around, even if untargetable or pathetic low hitpoint ones. Without them there’s just no Skaven atmosphere.
• A contribution system that works.
• A queueing system that works and actually gets equal numbers of players inside.
• A complete review of how and when we gain access to the dungeon, combined with how we are notified of it. We should be gagging to get in there. 

Lots of potential, totally wasted right now. Chop chop folks, make it good please.

Order and Skaven

One of the things that is often mentioned in discussions about the way Skaven are being implemented in WAR is how it’s perceived as being wrong for Order to ally with them. Many people are quite annoyed by this and while I’m not hugely bothered, I do agree that it is very dubious and I don’t think it’s right.

There is a reference in the lore to it happening, but as far as I’m aware only once, in a Gotrek novel. However there are masses of moments in the lore where Skaven and the Order factions have had major conflicts and seriously, these were not little lover's tiffs. We’re talking LOTS of major wars and pretty much attempted genocide. So when you consider that, to then see Skaven suddenly changing to being all buddy buddy just doesn’t really wash. And the mercenaries for hire thing? For Destruction it’s plausible, but for Order races? No, no way. Empire siding with them is in absolute desperation is just about passable, but Elves and (particularly) Dwarves is really stretching it. Skaven have filled a lot of pages in the Dammaz Kron…

But, and it’s one of those big BUT moments… Gamesworkshop have been involved in developing the new Skaven for WAR and they have given this the green light. Knowing how fussy Gamesworkshop are about protecting their lore, it’s a bit odd, especially when you consider that the new warhammer rulebook not only makes it very clear that Skaven are in the Destruction grouping, but also the new boxed set is all about a bitter conflict between High Elves and Skaven. Friends, allies, mercenaries, nah sorry folks it’s just not right.

So why have they done something in WAR that is seriously wonky when compared with the tabletop? I’d guess that there was probably a load of different reasons; including a worry that Skaven would be so popular that they would have unbalanced the 2 factions if they were limited to Destruction only AND with resources tight perhaps it may not have been possible to introduce a proper Order alternative (Lizardmen, Wood Elves, etc). No doubt loads of other reasons beyond my reasoning too.

Also I suspect that Gamesworkshop recognise that the tabletop does not cleanly translate into an MMO and as such may see Warhammer Online as an alternate reality to the tabletop world, which for the sake of better gameplay perhaps they’re happy to be a bit more flexible about. Personally I do think that no matter the reasoning behind it, it is a crying shame that Lizardmen weren’t introduced as exact mirrors of the playable Skaven. It would have made this all a non-issue. So with me now blatantly ignoring any issues of time and money to make it so, I think it could have worked quite like this:

Rat Ogre = Kroxigor
Gutter Runner = Chamelon Skink
Warlock Engineer = Skink Priest
Pack Master = OK this one I’m not sure on as a direct mirror is tricky. It would need to be a Saurus somehow for character appeal… Surely something though?

Easy for me to say of course...

Anyway, regardless of any of our doubts about the lore thing, Gamesworkshop agreed it and that’s what we’re getting. GW own the lore, they can do whatever they like with it. Sure, Mythic have misjudged a bit what people really wanted and expected from Skaven, but then you know how it is. No matter what Mythic had chosen to do with Skaven, it was never going to please everyone.

So in summary, for me it is a bastardisation of the lore and I think it’s both a missed opportunity and a misunderstanding. But I’ll get over it, in fact I already did, about 5 minutes after hearing about it at Gamesday. I just felt I should post my thoughts about it. I will continue paying, playing and enjoying WAR. The single most important thing to consider about the introduction of Skaven is: will it make the game even more fun to play?

I reckon so.

I played Skaven

Yesterday (or in fact today) I, like a fool, sat up to the early hours of the morning and tried out the playable Skaven on the PTS.

It was very interesting indeed, a lot of fun and I can safely say that Skaven are going to have a big impact on our tried and tested ways of playing WAR. First off let’s be clear, NONE of them seemed to do a great deal of damage to players. If you’re thinking you will be WTFPWNING!!! people with them, sorry folks, but that’s not going to happen. They will however influence fights through their unique abilities and in no small way too, but really from the off you should be thinking of the Skaven as support classes.

There are a few common things between the 4 Skaven classes:

• All of them have very high hit points; I believe it ranged from 17k to 34(?)k depending on class.
• None of them can use mounts, so you’re on foot and legging it around, slowly.
• Rat Ogres can only be healed by the Packmasters, but other Skaven can be healed by other people. So they will require escorting by other players, but they will be worth it. (thanks Anon comment for the correction!)
• You turn yourself into Skaven from a device in the keep and you will remain as Skaven until either you die or you leave the RvR lake.
• When you turn into a Skaven your tool bars change to Skaven abilities, with each class having around 6 different things it can do. These abilities need to be rearranged to your preference and reset each time you change into a Skaven. A minor thing, but quite annoying, so hopefully that will get improved.
• None of the careers have a spamable attack, everything has a cooldown of at least 2 seconds and more often 5.
• There are limited numbers of each type of the Skaven careers available at one time, except it seems Rat Ogres which appeared to be unlimited.

Rat Ogre

The throwing people around is going to be hugely popular. It’s intended for throwing people onto walls, but it’s uses will go well beyond that. Hurling ranged onto rooftops, throwing people over obstacles for shortcuts, all sorts of things… Oh and you can only throw people in your group or warband, so the griefing concerns can be forgotten (except in PUGs…).

Other than using a ram, the only other thing that can damage doors are Rat Ogres. Keeping them alive will be interesting…

For general ORvR fighting Rat Ogres are going to have a big influence by guilds that make the most of them tactically. They have an AoE stagger for a start, but the real imposing (and hilarious) ability is their charge. You can hurtle forwards and quite literally knock enemy players flying. I ran straight through a warband and bodies went everywhere. Didn’t do much damage (if any), but it totally screwed up their postioning.

Packmaster

I had problems with this career. I may have been doing it wrong, but their heal seemed very underwhelming and I had a little difficulty telling when it was working or not. I was getting invalid target a lot, presumably because the Rat Ogre I was targeting already had a heal active? Not sure.

I really liked their summoning rats ability, it was just amusing to use, though how potent it was I’m not entirely sure. Oh and they can leap huge distances to the nearest Rat Ogre, which has to be the best get out of dodge ability in the game. All told I’m just uncertain on this class, I gave it a good go, but it just didn't click for me, but it could have been me being confused. I'd be very interested to hear how other people got on with it.

Gutter Runner

This little bugger is going to be very, very popular. The damage is pathetically bad, but with permanent stealth and a 60% run buff on a toggle, combined with their ability to leap up walls, these are the ultimate scouting class. For example you can easily get all the way into the inner keep and report on exactly how the enemy is setting themselves up. I spent a lot of my time running round watching stuff and it actually reminded me of my DAoC scout and being the eyes of our alliance in the old days.

They can sabotage enemy siege weapons, but I didn’t get to see the end result of that unfortunately. For general warband play they also have a quite potent AoE snare bomb type thing, which when delivered from their uber stealth could well be a right pain in the arse.

Warlock Engineer

I LOVE the look and sound effects from this class, very cool. Unfortunately I didn’t get to play it very much, but from what I saw it seems like the one class that might do some proper damage with its lightning gun and warpfire thrower. It also has some seriously good buffs . But like I said I didn’t get much time with this one, so can’t say too much.

How exactly this will all work out on live we can’t be sure, but these new classes provide some very interesting new tools for warband leaders to utilise. It looks to me like they are going to dramatically change things and we’ve got a lot of new stuff to get the hang of.

BTW sorry the screenies are low quality, was a bit of a rush job and I was tired :P

Last nights test didn't go to plan

I couldn't go because of how late it was this side of the pond and tbh I'm glad I didn't sit up for it, as apparently things didn't quite go to plan. ;)

There werea few issues, including one where people got ported to Norsca... And as such there wasn't much time left for people to test the dungeon properly. But even so, that's one big bug discovered. Plus finding silly things like that is what testing is for and you should never go expecting things to be anywhere near perfect.

Thankfully people did at least get to have a crack at the first RvR boss event. Werit has posted a video of it which you can check out at his blog over here.

It looks like a fairly stationary boss with the emphasis more on the fighting with players, but I can't really tell what else was having to be dealt with. We'll find out soon though with the next test on Friday, which I also probably can't make due to RL commitments, but I'll gather any news I can find ASAP.

In other related news, Mythic have confirmed subscribers will NOT have to pay for the RvR Packs to enter the new dungeon. The only limitation is the RR65+ limit, but remember that doesn't mean you'll be able to access all the goodies or rewards from it without purchasing part of the RvR pack, we'll have to wait and see on that one. Also I've no idea yet if that includes access to the playable Skaven or not.

More news as it appears...

Thanquol's Incursion, will folks stay and fight?

OK so I’m presuming everyone has read Mythic’s post on the herald with more info about the new Skaven RvR Dungeon “Thanquol's Incursion”.

I was hoping for an RvR zone more than a dungeon, though I’m not entirely sure what I had envisaged; something huge and open, perhaps akin to DAoC style zones. Yet a while back I came round to accepting that WAR will never be DAoC2 and it certainly will never be UO2 (my other dream game…), but I still enjoy it and play WAR most nights, so perhaps while I think I want a return to those games, maybe I wouldn’t be quite so happy going back. Dunno for sure. WAR does work perfectly for someone like me that is balancing a family and gaming. Being able to log out whenever without hassle is essential if you want to maintain a relationship with a non-gaming wife. WAR is wonderfully friendly to the older gamer doing the hardcore casual thing.

Anyway, part of WAR’s different style is the instanced 24vs24 City siege and it looks like Thanquol's Incursion is very much going to be a similar experience. 3 stages and a focus on RvR, mixed with NPC interaction that isn’t quite normal PvE. The city siege is still a fun experience, at least when people aren’t quitting the instance to avoid tough opposition. Though on that topic it’s a little more understandable when solo queuing and you get into a half way finished instance with your spawn being camped and barely any friendly players there. Plus despite what people’s internet personas and egos may allow them to admit, I’ve seen premade groups/warbands from every single well known guild from both factions drop out when things went bad, actually I tell a lie, there’s one exception and it’s not who Norn players would expect.

OK that’s a tangent, but it’s relevant because if Thanquol's Incursion uses the same system to join as the city, then we will most likely see similar things. Which will mean when it’s good, it’s great and when it’s not so good, it’s a bit meh. Yet, any PvP game will see things like this happen. There’s always a load of people that will always go for the path of least resistance, no matter how dull. That’s why the term leechers is so common in MMOs.

So the big questions for me for anyone that goes to tonight’s (or for me early morning) PTS Skaven event is:

Does joining the dungeon work like the city siege?
And if so how much fun will this instance be to play with erratic opposition?
Or does it work in such a way that people will stay for the fun/fight/whatever?

It’s a tricky one to balance as if you make the Bosses too involving it becomes too much PvE when you’ve got a proper fight on. Maybe Mythic have cracked it though. Mythic learnt a lot from the City siege, tonight we’ll discover how that gets applied. Alas I can’t make this first test, work tomorrow and all that, but I’m looking forward to hearing what people discover.

Other random thought, I bet Warhammer lore fans are wetting their panties about this famous pair below.

OI! Mythic release some more Skaven dungeon details!

Just linking for now and reading :)

UPDATED WITH PTS INFO! Pondering on this new Skaven zone/dungeon/area/thing

As my ridiculous number of hits for a Sunday suggests, you’ve most likely heard about Carrie’s announcement at the weekend. However, if not then please check this post where I explained what was said and then get your cute little buttocks back here.

Ok, so now we’re all on the same page, I shall have a little ramble about my thoughts regarding this news.

My initial thought on this was “ooh interesting” but tarnished by a coating of bitter tasting disappointment. I’m not entirely sure what I was expecting of the Skaven zone, but I think the clue was in the word “zone”. As in a large area that could be explored with freedom, regardless of if I am solo or grouped. I was thinking about tunnels linking up all the zones, sneaking around, battling rats and scrapping with players.

And then as I was pondering on why we’re instead getting an instanced dungeon, I realised I was letting my UO and DAoC roots influence me too far. In WAR there’s no point or use for tunnels linking zones or in fact any of the DAoC style underground stuff. It’s all made completely irrelevant by flight masters and PvE lands around the RvR lakes, there’s no need to sneak through tunnels. It would be too damn slow, provide no benefit and be a total waste of time.

So with that type of zone ruled out, it leaves us with a Land of the Dead style area and if we’re honest while LotD has seen a bit of a resurgence in popularity, it’s not exactly packed with people queuing to get in. Whereas the new city siege is very popular and when it’s available there’s always plenty of fighting to be found. That’s not to say it doesn’t have issues, like anything from every MMO ever, nothing is perfect, but it is pretty good and in general people like it. Certainly I think with the city siege Mythic cracked the PvPvE combination and the potential for taking this further is huge, which is obviously what they are trying to do with the new Skaven dungeon.

The new Skaven zone/dungeon/area/thing

And now I’ve changed to a feeling of positive curiosity. There is a lot of potential here and it could turn out to be extremely compelling. I’m not leaping up and down with excitement yet, my doubts are not written off, but I am intrigued in a good way. Not to the same level as the campaign changes mind you, which I can’t bloody wait for and think will be abso-sodding-lutely awesome.

Now some people are making a lot of assumptions about this Skaven dungeon news, both positive and negative, but seriously folks all we have is a rough outline. I’ve seen a few people likening it to just a scenario, I’m not entirely sure why. It sounds more like the new city to me and keep in mind Carrie has only described “ONE of the bosses”, that implies more than just some a single scenario thing. So please don’t get too het up in either direction just yet, particularly since the new stuff goes to the PTS (Public Test Server) this month and we will discover the truth of it all soon.

The key questions for me, at least as I think about it right now with limited knowledge of the details, are:

The biggest annoyance with the city siege is people chain quitting instances and not staying to fight. Will this have the same system to get in and if so how will the problem be avoided? This really needs sorting out somehow.

On a grand scale. Like Tori Amos said; “it’s gotta be big”.

How often and what prompts the Skaven area becoming accessible? I’m pondering on things like when doing ORvR with a warband, do we suddenly drop out and leave the people under RR65 to fight alone in the normal campaign? Or will people have notice and time to prepare and split warbands by RR? That’s not necessarily a bad thing, I’m just curious about how it will work.

The city siege is supposedly remaining as the big deal, final battle of uberness. How do the new armour sets relate to City and Skaven instances? What items are available, if any, in the Skaven dungeon area?

Ahh I could go on, there’s so much to wonder about… I suspect these PTS events will be a wee bit busier than normal.

PTS DETAILS ANNOUNCED!
Yes that was... PTS details announced! AND IT IS THIS WEEK!
Starting with T3... should be a great laugh ;)

"Greetings!

We're very excited to announce the first phase of Mass Play-test events surrounding the upcoming changes to Open Realm vs. Realm combat!

We're inviting our entire Community out to the Warpstone Public Test Server this Wednesday, October 6th 2010, to put the new ORvR mechanic through it's paces. We'll be kicking things off at 8:00 PM EDT/02.00 CET, so be sure to log in early to get set up! Tier 3 templates will be provided, as we'll be testing the night away in the Tier 3 EvC Lake.
A second (European friendly) test will be hosted this Friday, October 8th 2010 at 21.00 CET/3:00 PM EDT with a final test occurring Tuesday, October 12th 2010 at 8:00 PM EDT/02.00 CET.

For instructions on how to access the Warpstone PTS, please read here!

So come on out to Warpstone and see the future of ORvR!

We'll see you on the battlefield!

WAAAGH!"

Skaven zone news - Instanced RvR Dungeon

Carrie Gouskos was on the Tentonhammer podcast tonight and with me being a dedicated WAR reporter, I sat through what was a really fucking painful experience (the bloke hosting was a character) at stupid O’clock to get the scoop. So without further ado, here’s the news:

The new playable area is an instanced RvR enabled Skaven dungeon. A fully RvR experience. It’s an offshoot of the campaign and it sounded like it will not always be accessible. When it is you need to be RR65 or higher to get in. The instance is a 24 vs 24 huge scrap, but also includes some legendary Skaven bosses. A mixed player and mob RvR experience, presumably quite a bit like the new city siege. Which was then clarified further with an example…

Carrie described one of these bosses: Throt the Unclean. Whichever side gets the kill (not confirmed if last hit, more damage or what is required) wins. However Throt turns up with 2 big rat ogres… One of these Rat Ogres goes for Order and the other for Destruction. Now if you get the Rat Ogres health below a certain point he gets disorientated and goes for the other realm, who will then have to deal with BOTH Rat Ogres. Giving you an easier the chance to hurt the boss. The thing is though, remember you’re going to be dealing with Throt, the Rat Ogre AND the enemy players all at once.

Your success in the dungeon is what determines you then getting access to the Skaven classes and being able to go back up to the main campaign as Skaven.

Skaven, my Chosen and me

I was having a natter on twitter the other day with people about the new Skaven, some folks are bit disappointed with how they’re being implemented and others, myself included, are not. However it wasn’t that long ago that I had been saying how the very concept of Skaven not being a traditional MMORPG level from rank 1-XX style character was NOT what I wanted. So what changed?

It boils down to a moment of self(ish) realisation that I had while pondering on the Gamesday UK Skaven news. My Chosen isn’t RR80 yet (RR76), for the simple reason that I am constantly being distracted by other playstyles and characters; after all it’s why I have 8 level 40s… So if Skaven added to that, well let’s just say my Chosen stands no chance of hitting RR100. I would end up being too busy going off on constant tangents and developing new characters.

However with this new system, my Chosen will effectively have access to 4 entirely different class playstyles AND still get all the renown earned. The downside of course is it doesn’t sound like I will really ever get that RPesque (new word ftw!) feeling of a true Skaven character and representing the little rat bastards properly, something I was quite keen on experiencing in an MMORPG, but for once I think I can happily live without that extra immersion. It’s going to benefit my overall progression so dramatically that I am pretty much converted to embracing the new Skaven.

With just one character we’ll have all these new options, but it is at the cost of our traditional expectations of new classes and expansions. Perhaps we have been too blinkered by the standard MMO mould for expansions and in fact Mythic are going to be stirring up a bowl of awesomeness, or perhaps being blinkered is right and it’s a case of “if it’s not broke don’t fix it”. I don’t know for sure yet, but at present I’m feeling very optimistic about all of this. It will be very interesting indeed to see how the rest of the WAR population and those watching from the sidelines react, particularly once it all goes live.

I know Gaarawarr was considering posting something about this, more from the slightly concerned viewpoint, so if you’re interested in this topic be sure to keep an eye on his blog (which you should be anyway).

What are you least and most looking forward to from 1.4 and the RvR Pack?

Now that we are starting to get a picture, albeit a limited one, of what the future of WAR holds… I would like to ask a question:

What are you least and most looking forward to from 1.4 and the RvR Pack?

Prior to the Gamescom/Gamesday Baltimore news I was most excited about the chance of playing Skaven, but afterwards I find myself not that bothered about that at all now. It might be fun, but no matter what Mythic have up their sleeves it will not be what I wanted and for me personally, to stay excited will only lead to disappointment. So unless fresh news comes out to change my mind, I’ve kinda written that off as something to get all hyped about. You may accuse me of being blinkered by the past and I shouldn’t be so limited in my desires for a MMO traditional playable race, but sorry folks, that IS what I wanted. It is ok to not be happy about everything, particularly as blind faith is, well… blind. And not really any different to blind hate.

So as a customer and devoted WAR fan, it is now up to Mythic to convince me that their new idea for Skaven is better than my (and most people’s) preconceived perception of what a true playable MMO race is. I don’t think that’s a harsh or unfair thing to say.

The thing that really has me quivering with thoughts of potential slices of awesome pie (with custard AND a raspberry coulis) is the campaign update and how the new Skaven zone(s?) links into this. We know that victory points and domination are going, we also know that Mythic want to move the campaign away from waithammer and give us something more dynamic, yet easy to understand. I don’t think we’ll move away from zone locking, as I think it was a wording issue when I was told this before and they actually meant domination, which is a shame if so, but there’s still so much potential here. Instead, I suspect we’re going to get something heavily influenced by the new city siege system.

The new city siege is in a way telling a story, a story that is built around the clear objectives that each stage provides. The sappers desperately trying to destroy the defenders siege weaponry, Warlords marching through the city looking to challenge and defeat their rivals. The Emperor Karl Franz and Tchar'zanek nominating their champions for the final battle… it’s all just a bit more melodramatic than the Victory point system before it. So imagine if there were similar things within the campaign itself? NPC warlords leading assaults, defensive/offensive goals that have a tangible effect and objectives that had more purpose than just adding a few points to a scoreboard.

I could be way off the mark with the thoughts above, but I’m rather excited about the potential of a completely revised campaign and what it could mean for WAR. The campaign is the lynch pin of WAR and a complete revision that genuinely improves it would be a monumental change. I can’t wait to see what happens.

How about you?

Actually folks things look rather good

If you’ve not already seen Gaarawarr has posted a full transcript of the interview with Mythic that the US bloggers had. There’s not a huge amount of new detail, but there’s a few bits and bobs squeezed out and it’s well worth a read. Thanks to those guys for making the effort to fly out to Baltimore and /salute Gaar for yet another of his tireless transcription posts.

Now then, now then… what to make of the last few days and Mythic’s announcement?

With the announcement style Mythic have cocked up. It has initially done more harm than good, has annoyed a lot of people and given fuel to the WAR haters. It’s worth mentioning here that; just like how haters write off anything positive as being sycophantic fantasy, some people write off anything negative as being just whinging internet pricks. This is unfair. Many people that are currently making negative comments are people that also often make positive ones and they should NOT be simply written off as haters. This weekend the WAR internet community, forums and in-game chat should have been filled with rampant positivity, hype and excitement, but it wasn’t and still isn’t. So regardless of anything, the way this information was released and the no comment spam has proven to be a mistake.

But that’s life. People and businesses make mistakes, shit happens. It doesn’t mean from then on everything will go horribly wrong. Mythic will learn from this and react appropriately.

The thing is, despite the above, we SHOULD and can be excited. The RvR Pack is coming out around December and it looks like we’ve got 1.4 before that, which means over the next 4 months we’re going to be getting a fair few updates and new content.

We are getting a completely revised campaign structure, a large new RvR zone/s that somehow links into the campaign (my money is on a DAoC style tunnel system and underground city linking all the zones), more renown ranks, more armour, more items, Skaven (!) and that’s just what has been mentioned so far. Please don’t assume that’s all we’re getting, we have no idea what else may be coming, yet.

Of course I’m disappointed Skaven aren’t going to be what many of us see as a proper playable race; as in something you can give a name, can level, progress and master the different classes of. Yes it sounds like it’s going to be monster play, which was shite in LotRO, but then remember Mythic have said they don’t think anyone has done anything like how they are implementing Skaven. So maybe it’s just something we can’t yet predict and perhaps it will be good. No matter what, it will be something new and that’s no bad thing.

Also it’s been alluded to that we’ll get RvR pack style content more regularly than expansions in other games. Which would mean while this may not be the same scale as a full expansion, it could well work out we get just as much (if not more) content over time than those other games. Where other games content additions are like burst damage, perhaps Mythic are going for DoTs.

The story from Gamescom so far...

...is feeling far more meh than it probably should be. You can read about it here, but basically all that has been said is on the onrpg site is:

Skaven are involved they will not be implemented as a standard race that players can play from level one. "We want to do something... different with Skaven"

Renown rank 100.

With the RvR pack Bioware Mythic wants to move away from the standard "Release a huge expansion every 2 years." system and wants to adopt a system that allows players to "customize their game experience".

And thats it, no detail at all. Was that really ALL that was said in an interview? Does that actually even count as an "interview"?

It's probably feeling so meh because there's just no meat on the bones. I presume there is more info to come out, but Andy has tweeted that this will be at Baltimore Gamesday. So I'm a bit puzzled. Did Mythic really fly people all the way to Germany for a special announcement that was this brief? Surely there is more to come tomorrow?  Andy's tweet suggests not, but I just find that hard to make sense of.

Regarding the Skaven, I've got ideas about what it could mean, but there seems little point in posting. The anti-climax has drained my enthusiasm. Not that I'm all doom or gloom, it could be very good stuff coming, just got no way of telling and it seems pointless to post anything when we might as well just wait for as Andy says "a little more detailed information will be coming out of #GamesDayBaltimore this weekend"

It’s a plague and it’s red and it’s probably a portent

Public Test Server Q&A, transcript from Gaarawar.

Q – What is the Red Plague all about and how will it affect the game?

James - It’s a plague and it’s red and it’s probably a portent.


A portent indeed, exactly as the warhammer lore tells us...

Horned rat is horny

Whilst trawling forums and the like I've seen a few folks asking “why do so many people want RATS as a playable race???”

To answer this I shall quote Pandemic of Karak Norn Brightwizardy fame:

“Who doesn’t want to play a race of paranoid racial supremist psychotic cannibals?”

Being a rambling long post type person myself, I could waffle on with a larger explanation, but why bother when that sums it up perfectly!

If you’re still not convinced then perhaps this collection of Skaven imagery will convince you…

And if even that doesn't drag you onto the ratty train of love, then I recommend you use the mighty power of wikipedia for their background story.

Bretonnia, could it work?

I’m going to continue playing along with this dream of The Red Plague expansion, for a start it’s an interesting topic and even if these rumours turn out to be a load of old bollocks (which is a distinct possibility), at some point WAR will get an expansion. When that expansion arrives it’s extremely likely that we’ll see Skaven as a playable race. I know I would love to see them in-game and as discussion on the various WAR forums, etc has shown over the last two years I’m not alone in that respect. Also they have a wonderful selection of careers just waiting to be created, it’s an absolute no-brainer and Mythic would be spolit for choice. So assuming the Red Plague was a real expansion that introduces Skaven for the forces of Destruction, what would Order get in return?

That’s an easy question, as the context of the Red Plague itself defines the answer. It has to be either Wood Elves or Bretonnians. I’m not going to talk about Wood Elves today as over at Blurring Shock you can find an excellent post with ideas for what careers the Wood Elves could introduce to WAR. I would consider doing things slightly differently perhaps, well… perhaps anyway. Just like Skaven, the Wood Elves are a race that has multiple options for WAR style careers. Anyways, today I’ll post some thoughts on what careers the Bretonnians could have. In my previous post Grukkzag commented that he couldn’t see how Brettonians could be made to fit in, but I think there are ways, with a little tinkering anyway… First though there is one big problem to deal with, in both the warhammer lore and the tabletop game the Bretonnians are built around mounted Knights. They are essentially a cavalry army with limited infantry support. In WAR there is no mounted combat and it is extremely unlikely there ever will be for a wide range of reasons, so if we get Bretonnians they will be fighting on foot. You could try to imagine some clever background reason for this, or you just ignore it, make the careers totally kick arse and awesome looking and don’t worry about it. I’m all for the latter of those two options. Dressing it up would probably just sound stupid.

The second big thing to get round is the perception that Bretonnians are all about Knights and Damsels, which limits career options too much. I’d actually like to challenge that perception, because I don’t think it’s true anymore. The current Bretonnian book puts a lot of emphasis on the class divide in Bretonnian society and how this is reflected in the army itself. Yes there are a lot of Knights, but there are also things like Men at Arms, Peasant Bowman (based upon Enligsh Longbowmen who as history demonstrated were not to be underestimated), Yeoman and Battle Pilgrims. Those units also often have champions, champions that could be taken a bit further perhaps… Keep in mind this kind of tinkering is why the Disciple of Khaine career exists in WAR and not on the tabletop.

I’m not going to spend ages going into the detail of how I would make the actual careers work, that’ll turn this post into a monster :P So instead here are some basic themes from characters and troop types already in the existing lore:

Paladin (Tank)

This is not your WoW style Paladin, full of magic and holy smiting blah blah blah. This is a proper warrior. A Bretonnian Paladin is national hero admired amongst a nation of heroes, a shining example of chivalry and hard as bloody nails too. Covered from head to toe in the finest plate-mail armour and wielding a range of weapons, these Knights are some of the old world’s most elite warriors. The career would have brutal melee abilities and some kind of other abilities based around their religious purity and the vows they take. Also I would have them using Morning Stars, Flails and Maces, as I don’t think anyone really uses those in WAR currently and Bretonnians are rather fond of Morning Stars in particular.

Morning Star - if you build it they will come.

Knight Errant (MDPS)

Young Knights trying to prove themselves and become Knights of the Realm. Also known as arrogant, obnoxious and very posh psychopaths. Give them medium armour, lots of weapons, abilities that reflect their unhinged nature and I’m sure us players could provide the psychosis.

Villein (RDPS)

Bretonnian longbowmen are led by dubious characters know as Villeins. Why not expand that character a bit? A peasant he maybe, but this guy has fought tooth and nail to escape his lowly birth. Deadly at range with his longbow, but devious and tricky up close. Dirty tricks are the order of the day, anything goes if it gives him an advantage. Dirt in their eyes, kicks in the balls, hidden weapons, poisons, the works.

Damsel (Healer)

In Bretonnia you’ve got two types of damsels; the ones in distress and the ones causing it. Obviously we’re talking about the latter. They are spellcasters with magic using the lores of beasts and life, perfect for a hybrid pet and healing class. Pets being this like summoned wolves, bears and the like.

Now those are not the only options, whilst I was looking at the Bretonnian book I had other ideas for things like a Master of Arms, Battle Pilgrims and Questing Knights. So I think it is perfectly doable, should Mythic ever choose to do so. I’d still prefer Wood Elves overall, but I’d roll a Villein on Karak-Azgal tomorrow if they existed :D

Further Red Plague rumour milling

To continue from my post earlier, I just saw this thread by Wolfner on WHA where he references something spotted by Yitu (German blogger so link is in german). It's talking about the 1.3.4 video grab bag where as always there is a warhammer background type thing behind them. Apparently (I've not checked this) the grab bag background is normally a map of the Empire, or when it was about the Land of the Dead a map of that area. This grab bag is unusual because for no real reason it has Bretonnia in big letters smack bang in the middle of the screen and not a lot else visible... and this is for the whole interview.

Why is this relevant to the Red Plague? Well that would be because the Red Plague is most famous for being inflicted by the Skaven upon Bretonnia, which involved both the Bretonnians and Wood Elves.

If you're not familiar with the Bretonnians, they're a nation of humans with a mixture of classic Arthurian legend and 14-15th century French chivalric knights theme. It is a very militaristic society, full of double-hard bastards with big weapons and they're all itching for a fight (as well as from the pox).

Politically they are independent from Karl Franz and his Empire, but have often allied with them. Also their entire culture and religion is being manipulated by the Wood Elves. Never trust an Elf...

Another clue? Or just another example of a community desperate for an expansion clutching at straws? Pffft... I have no idea, but either way it's something positive and potentially awesome to talk about so why the hell not! ;)



Oh and I get to put a nice picture of a Knight Templar up with an English flag for Saint George's day and it's actually on topic! AWESOME SAUCE! Well, apart from the fact it's now late at night and it's actually the day after. Bollocks, I should have posted earlier...

The Red Plague expansion?

Is Mykiel actually Hercule Poiroit? I ask this because the clever git has spotted a possible clue in the patch notes, a very interesting clue indeed. One has to wonder if Mykiel will next reveal a Belgian accent and a moustache of curly distinction…
Go look at his post of epic intrigue here, have a read, leave a comment and then come back here for a chat and a lovely cup of tea. I’ll get the digestive biscuits out and if you’re lucky perhaps a chocolate hob-nob or two.

/boils kettle
/makes a lovely cup of tea

Ah there you are. Have a biscuit. Interesting read eh?

Now then, now then… it could be nothing at all, but everything Mykiel has said makes sense. It is very strange for Mythic to reference the Red Plague from established Warhammer history as the reason for the crafting NPCs to have moved to the cities. For a start they wouldn’t normally bother fluffing out the reason for the NPC’s relocation, certainly they never have before and if they did want to give it a reason then surely the more obvious and straightforward one would have just been because of the current war between Order and Destruction? Instead they’ve referenced a Skaven engineered plague… And note this is lore very specific to Skaven. The red plague heralds the Skaven going to war against the surface dwellers and not in a little half-arsed way; we’re talking major Skaven invasions. Cities destroyed, populations slaughtered or enslaved and a general collection of devious Rat-Bastardry™. So could this mean the Skaven are coming to WAR?

It’s only a clue and maybe not a real one, but there are things afoot. Lets look at the clues so far:
1) Bioware/Mythic stated they have new content and expansions planned for WAR.
2) They’ve also stated that the game is very profitable and subs are increasing. Profits and subs will mean development.
3) At the recent blogger visit to Mythic HQ there was a WAR development team that they were not allowed to talk to or see anything they’re working on.
4) The Red Plague revelation by Mykiel.

The Red Plague... A good name for an expansion yes?

Hmmmm I say! Hmmmm and thrice hmmmm! I think it’s time for all of us to get those little grey cells working. Keep your eyes peeled folks.